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Boundary Waters Quetico Forum Group Forum: Solo Tripping Prism vs Voyager |
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11/26/2019 09:11AM
After spending a month in a Prism this past summer, I’ve been bitten by the solo bug and am contemplating a purchase. I enjoyed paddling the Prism, but feel I was at or over the weight limit, especially early in the trip. Not just the solo bug, but also the extended trip bug has bitten me.
Next trip, I plan to go for 45-50 days without a resupply. I know the Voyager would be a better fit than the Prism. My problem is making this purchase without test paddling, My wife has given me the go ahead so I need to strike quickly, but don’t want to regret such a decision.
Has anyone paddled both that can give me feedback on the differences? I’m thinking I will love the Voyager. Also, I see the Voyager is narrower. How much of a hassle will it be fitting my two CCS packs in? The Prism held them fine, but there was a little effort getting them seated and centered at each landing.
Next trip, I plan to go for 45-50 days without a resupply. I know the Voyager would be a better fit than the Prism. My problem is making this purchase without test paddling, My wife has given me the go ahead so I need to strike quickly, but don’t want to regret such a decision.
Has anyone paddled both that can give me feedback on the differences? I’m thinking I will love the Voyager. Also, I see the Voyager is narrower. How much of a hassle will it be fitting my two CCS packs in? The Prism held them fine, but there was a little effort getting them seated and centered at each landing.
11/26/2019 09:50AM
Just looking at the specs I don't think the voyager is going to give a whole lot more capacity. It is 1 foot longer, but its 2 inches narrower at WL. Also if your packs were a tight fit in the prism they will be more difficult in the voyager.
The problem with the selection of solo canoes is that the average solo trip is probably 5-6 days, so most manufactured boats are designed around the capacity necessary for those trips. There is not enough demand for the boat you are seeking for any manufacturer to gear up to build it.
Start by figuring the weight and size of your 50 day outfit. Likely to be more than the 2 packs that you had an your 30 day. You are likely adding a third pack for 20 days more food. Then you can start looking for the canoe that will handle it.
Solos like the Northwind Solo have a 370 pound displacement to the 4 inch waterline. That leaves 8.5 inches of freeboard and that should the minimum for safe travel. You may end up soloing a small tandem for a 50 day tour.
Using the ends of the canoe really helps for fitting packs into narrow boats. My solo outfit has three packs. A #2 Duluth pack, a duffel that is narrow enough to fit up in the bow and rides easily resting on top of the #2 on a portage. I don't even have to have a hand on it. The duffel has a handle, but no shoulder straps. A day pack rounds out the outfit and I carry that with the canoe. Expansion of my capacity would be replacing the day pack with a bigger pack.
If you need to add a pack for a 50 day tour, a duffel or narrow dry bag might be the answer. It will fill that usually empty space in the bow.
The problem with the selection of solo canoes is that the average solo trip is probably 5-6 days, so most manufactured boats are designed around the capacity necessary for those trips. There is not enough demand for the boat you are seeking for any manufacturer to gear up to build it.
Start by figuring the weight and size of your 50 day outfit. Likely to be more than the 2 packs that you had an your 30 day. You are likely adding a third pack for 20 days more food. Then you can start looking for the canoe that will handle it.
Solos like the Northwind Solo have a 370 pound displacement to the 4 inch waterline. That leaves 8.5 inches of freeboard and that should the minimum for safe travel. You may end up soloing a small tandem for a 50 day tour.
Using the ends of the canoe really helps for fitting packs into narrow boats. My solo outfit has three packs. A #2 Duluth pack, a duffel that is narrow enough to fit up in the bow and rides easily resting on top of the #2 on a portage. I don't even have to have a hand on it. The duffel has a handle, but no shoulder straps. A day pack rounds out the outfit and I carry that with the canoe. Expansion of my capacity would be replacing the day pack with a bigger pack.
If you need to add a pack for a 50 day tour, a duffel or narrow dry bag might be the answer. It will fill that usually empty space in the bow.
11/26/2019 10:41AM
Gotta agree, the Voyager has less usable internal volume, but I do easily fit enough for two weeks in my Advantage. Want volume? Encounter is the freighter solo.
The Magic isn't bad at hauling gear and a Solo Plus has lots of volume.
Any of these can handle 350 pounds total, some more carefully than others, the top being the Encounter.
butthead
The Magic isn't bad at hauling gear and a Solo Plus has lots of volume.
Any of these can handle 350 pounds total, some more carefully than others, the top being the Encounter.
butthead
"never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups" George Carlin
11/26/2019 11:17AM
butthead: "Gotta agree the Voyager has less usable internal volume. But I do fit in my Advantage enough for 2 weeks easily. Want volume? Encounter is the freighter solo.
The Magic isn't bad at hauling gear and a Solo Plus has lots of volume.
Any of these can handle 350 pounds total, some more carefully than others, the top being the Encounter.
butthead"
I thought about the encounter and now after reading this I’m wondering if that’s where I need to end up. My concern with the “freighter” is empty paddling, or when I’m not on a extended trip and not needing the capacity.
My experience with the prism was when empty it was tippy but not flippy, as long as I stayed between the gunwales I was fine. I would expect the same from the encounter
I’m closer to 400 pounds loaded, the prism handled it fine but I avoided big waves for the first 2 weeks and knew I was “pushing it” as far as weight limit goes.
Either way my rental days are over, just need to settle on one canoe
11/26/2019 01:02PM
http://www.hemlockcanoe.com/eaglet.html
If you like the straight ahead/no rocker feel then the Encounter is your boat. If you want a little rocker so the sinuous creeks are more fun or you spend some of your time in moving water, maybe the Hemlock Eaglet might be a good choice. I've seen a big, burly 300+, very top heavy man be comfortable in this boat.
If you like the straight ahead/no rocker feel then the Encounter is your boat. If you want a little rocker so the sinuous creeks are more fun or you spend some of your time in moving water, maybe the Hemlock Eaglet might be a good choice. I've seen a big, burly 300+, very top heavy man be comfortable in this boat.
11/26/2019 02:02PM
I currently have a Voyager, and had an Encounter before. The gunnel width on the Voyager is quite slim--a CCS Pioneer (the smaller of the two packs) is a tight fit laid flat. The Encounter has more volume, and because it is a bit wider, has less hassle loading it. I haven't had more than 10 days of gear in, but putting in another pack or two for food wouldn't have been a problem with either. As mentioned, additional narrower packs that would fit in the ends is a good idea. I've done tandem trips with 7 weeks of food, and fitting that gear in either boat wouldn't be too much of a problem. I had a Seal Line 115, another 70-80 liter dry pack, and two smaller dry day packs. Those would fit in the Encounter and the Voyager with no problem. The CCS packs are wider than most (even larger) dry packs, and the added width would limit their use on the narrower Voyager.
Both boats paddle really well.
Both boats paddle really well.
11/26/2019 08:12PM
I use the CCS pioneer packs, are you able to fit 2 in the voyager?
I’m curious as it seems you went from the encounter to the voyager. I’ve managed to talk the wife into a canoe, if I try to tell her I need new packs too it might get ugly
I’m curious as it seems you went from the encounter to the voyager. I’ve managed to talk the wife into a canoe, if I try to tell her I need new packs too it might get ugly
11/26/2019 09:48PM
I don't think you could get two Pioneers flat in a Voyager--I don't know about vertical. The widest spot is right behind the seat, and a full Pioneer, flat, takes a bit of jiggling to get it in. A Seal Line Pro Pack (115 l) will fit lengthwise with no problem--it's a bit narrower but longer. I try to keep everything below the gunnels. I changed from the Encounter to the Voyager for the added efficiency (sold the Encounter for about what I paid for it). Until I start 30 day+ trips, I could have probably have gotten by with an Advantage. I have an old 16' C1W I can use in places I don't want to take the Voyager. The Voyager is not a particularly versatile hull, but it sure likes to cover lots of ground. I think Hans Solo uses it as his primary boat--he's spent more time in it than I have.
11/27/2019 09:17AM
"the prism was when empty it was tippy but not flippy, "
You will find that with any true solo canoes. They are the motorcycle or sportcar of the canoe world. It's a feeling that you get used to and employ for maneuvering the canoe.
The Voyager feels much wobblier than the Prism, a solo I find quite steady (but do not care for). If it's stability you need a Solo Plus, SR 16, Northstar B16, or other tandem that can double easily for a solo. But you will pay for the stability in response and handling.
butthead
PS: Bulldogge62, if you space a response to a quote, space down a full line or 2 to keep the "red italics" of the quoted section from running in the response. bh
You will find that with any true solo canoes. They are the motorcycle or sportcar of the canoe world. It's a feeling that you get used to and employ for maneuvering the canoe.
The Voyager feels much wobblier than the Prism, a solo I find quite steady (but do not care for). If it's stability you need a Solo Plus, SR 16, Northstar B16, or other tandem that can double easily for a solo. But you will pay for the stability in response and handling.
butthead
PS: Bulldogge62, if you space a response to a quote, space down a full line or 2 to keep the "red italics" of the quoted section from running in the response. bh
"never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups" George Carlin
11/27/2019 10:17AM
butthead:
The Voyager feels much wobblier than the Prism, a solo I find quite steady (but do not care for). "
if you think the Voyager is wobbly, you should paddle my C1W
although, yeah, I'd agree the Prism is more steady, it also is grabbed by the wind more, there is a tradeoff with every canoe, solo's especially
I carry two Duluth packs when I paddle my Voyager, the first stands upright, sideways in the bow (or on it's side if windy to lower it), the second lays on its back behind me
I agree, OP should look at the Encounter for what he wants
although the Voyager can in theory carry a lot, the inside dimensions restrict what and how you carry, it's really more about speed, and IMO, a sweeter boat to paddle than all Wenonah's solo's
let science, not politics decide, ... but whose science?
11/27/2019 02:42PM
ZSp00k, I do paddle an Advantage, pretty close to C1W. And consider it less wobbly than a Voyager also. Honestly I'd take a Voyager over a Prism or Encounter but after paddling a Voyager several times and Bell Magics I chose the Advantage for a tripping canoe 8 years ago and still prefer it.
butthead
butthead
"never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups" George Carlin
11/28/2019 08:52AM
After absorbing all the info here and in the archives, combined with my limited experience and advice from the wife, I’ve decided to purchase a Prism.
I had the time of my life last July and August, tripping in the Prism for 32 days
In fact when I returned home I told her that I would like to buy the Exact canoe I rented when the outfitter sells it.
Now I’m in contact with Hayward outfitters looking at factory blems, there’s several to choose from including a graphite prism with a gel coated bottom. That’s the one that caught the wife’s eye, and it is pretty.
Just need to pick one and figure out delivery logistics
Thanks for all the input and help , both here and when I planned my month long solo trip, I was able to stay at a 5 star camp almost every night and complete the grand slam with no trouble.
I had the time of my life last July and August, tripping in the Prism for 32 days
In fact when I returned home I told her that I would like to buy the Exact canoe I rented when the outfitter sells it.
Now I’m in contact with Hayward outfitters looking at factory blems, there’s several to choose from including a graphite prism with a gel coated bottom. That’s the one that caught the wife’s eye, and it is pretty.
Just need to pick one and figure out delivery logistics
Thanks for all the input and help , both here and when I planned my month long solo trip, I was able to stay at a 5 star camp almost every night and complete the grand slam with no trouble.
11/30/2019 11:39AM
I've done a 27 and 12 day solo in my Prism and have been very happy with it. I use a CCS pioneer pack and it lays down perfectly behind me and a blue barrel in the CCS barrel pack w/o the little side pockets slides almost to the tip of the bow. You may want to check Hayward Outfitters for your Prism. They sell factory seconds for a nice price. I am in no way affiliated with them but I did buy my MNII and Prism there. I hope you have many years of tripping in your canoe.
12/01/2019 01:09AM
minnmike: " I've done a 27 and 12 day solo in my Prism and have been very happy with it. I use a CCS pioneer pack and it lays down perfectly behind me and a blue barrel in the CCS barrel pack w/o the little side pockets slides almost to the tip of the bow. You may want to check Hayward Outfitters for your Prism. They sell factory seconds for a nice price. I am in no way affiliated with them but I did buy my MNII and Prism there. I hope you have many years of tripping in your canoe."
I did buy from Hayward Outfitters
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