Hey, I've done several Q trips and they were all excellent. No complaints. Went to WCPP for an 11-day trip last year and going back for a 14 day spring trip.

WCPP is a different animal. Most portages are shorter and the fishing is fantastic. Very few people in the park (especially with good planning you get away from the remote camps and fly in lakes). You have to realize you might see a motorized fishing boat in the absolute middle of nowhere, but in 11 days, we met two guys on a portage once, and saw only one occupied camp, if I remember right. That was cool.

WCPP has a rawness to it. Much more fire on the landscape. Lots of small jack pine. The old growth is spruce with lots of blowdowns. It is wonderful, but in a different way than the Q. Most campsites are barely more than a little clearing with a fire pit, and you don't often go out exploring because it is so thick and brushy everywhere.

WCPP trips are harder logistically and financially. A trip takes me two extra days, two hotel nights, more restaurant meals and highway border crossings, compared to the Q. Also, it just lacks the more open, old growth pine campsites so I'm sure I will head back to the Q again, it is not like WCPP ruined it for me. The parks are different, that's all. Both are excellent, I'm not complaining about either, I will go back to both.

That all said, loving the remoteness and isolation of the WCPP makes me want to find similar areas in the Q. Along with that comes the best fishing too, which is a huge consideration, but I never want to be on a lake like Kawnipi where the fishing is good, but half of the campsites are taken and you see canoes everywhere fishing.

So what is the most remote and "best" part of the Q? Are those areas burned or is old growth pine common?

Joe

The most remote part of Q I found was the McEwen chain - Wet to Lousia - saw no one for three days in July. Traditionally the north east corner seems less utilized but have not been there.

Or go in Late September and early October and you are pretty much alone.

Quetico is also more 'tropical' than the northern parks. Bigger trees, more lush vegetation, more humidity in the summer.

Getting the ultra-remote feeling in the Q like you had in WCPP you just need to get off the main pathway. There are so many one-off lakes that you need to just paddle a short while to get there. You need to train your eyes to look away from the easy pathways on the maps and start looking for chains or lakes that most people will overlook merely because there may not be a portage to it or it might be a dead end.

I did what you did by going further north to find more solitude but in the end, I feel more at home in the Q and it has everything I was looking for but didn't know it at the time.
Tom

I would go into Veron and Delahey. Or bushwhack into Hoare or Pierna.

Tumblehome you are right...WCPP is on the edge of the prairie, and the wind blows all the time up there. Quetico is quite a lot more temperate, with more deciduous and pine. And you are right, it has all one is looking for if you realize it.

Bill Conner, yes thanks for the reminder I went through McEwen a couple years ago and it was obviously not a busy route. I recall the portages were pretty un-used up there, and the fishing was great.

Thanks for the thoughts on the dead-end lakes and routes...good stuff. I also want to hit the NE part of the park, Mack and McKenzie and the Wawiag River...
Seems like I already knew the answer to my question if I had just thought about it a bit more!
Joe

Joe, do you always use a kayak when tripping in those parks? What's the weight on yours?

It’s pretty tough to only see 2-3 groups in a couple weeks in the Quetico, but it’s fairly routine for us to average less than one other group seen per day unless we’re in popular areas such as Kawnipi or close to entries. I’ve heard the northern entries tend to be less popular than the southern entries, but I’ve only ever done entries from the US border. One option that we’ve really liked the last few years was starting our trip with a shuttle to Crane Lake and then a row to LLC. Then we paddle through the southwest part of the park back towards Prairie Portage for our tow out. I haven’t seen many people on a lot of those lakes. The only ones I get the impression are more popular are Robinson, Darky, parts of Brent, McIntyre and Sarah. I’ve seen people in other lakes out that way, but not consistently. And as Tom said, going to a dead end lake is a pretty likely way to get great solitude!

TomT: "I would go into Veron and Delahey. Or bushwhack into Hoare or Pierna. "

I will only say this on this private forum:

What Tom T said is true. You will find true solitude with his recommendation. Delehay, Hoare, Allan. Check the map and email me if this is of interest.

Dammit. double post.

I routinely trip in the Q during July and August and go for days and often a full week without seeing other folks once past the permit lake. Disagree on the McEwan loop for solitude. Once headed north from Louisa (or south from McEwan) the route is constricted enough that if there is another party traveling your direction you will be bumping into them routinely. I also think Veron and Delahey get a fair amount of traffic in summer (campsites and portages well-used)

I travel hard the first day when possible and rarely see folks after the first day. A bit of a crap shoot (the chance that somebody has the same notion always a possibility). Avoid destination lakes. Don't concern yourself about a route that makes logical sense (from a point of view of getting from here to there). I did a solo trip two years ago beginning on July 4 where I didn't see humans for seven days but the route was so tangled that I paddled in one lake on three separate occasions (never crossing the same portages). But its a crapshoot. I did a trip in which the only time I saw folks the entire trip was in the middle of a mile long bushwhack.

Cutty Creek. --Goose

TomT: "Joe, do you always use a kayak when tripping in those parks? What's the weight on yours?"

Nope, never a kayak. Kruger Sea Wind, it is a decked canoe. They weigh about 60 pounds but have the best portage yoke ever made, and are perfectly balanced. As long as I can get it up on my shoulders, I'll keep taking it. I'm only 51 so I have a few years before I'm looking for an ultralight canoe. You are never windbound in a Sea Wind and when you catamaran two together, it is the best fishing platform ever. Yeah I'm weird, it's always two of us but I always take two solo canoes.

TMI I know :)

Zaphira , from Cache .

North of Mack into the Wawiag is a fairly isolated route. Not many journey that far or in that direction from Cullen. Sark and Cutty tend to be pretty isolated as well however I usually go in the shoulder seasons which means I see noone on my trips.

A quiet remote loop is to go northeast from Kenny Lake to Monro, then to Mack and down the Waiwag to Kawnipi. If you go up the Waiwag to Mack Creek, be careful not to miss it as it is small.

Here are a couple of pictures. The first shows the Waiwag entry into Kawnipi (camping restricted there due to a past native settlement), and the other a baby moose on the Waiwag.

Four years ago, my crew entered at French Lake, went across Pickerel, and turned south past the dam and half way down Rawn Narrows. We went east and at the east end of the bay paddled through some winding marsh grass, finally coming to a small rapids on the north.

A very unused old portage took us uphill to a small waterfall draining South Howard Lake. Even though it was the first week of August, it was obvious we were the first there that year. I cannot say there was anything unusual about Howard Lake, other than isolation. If you really want more isolation, you can go to the east end of South Howard and go into North Howard Lake. If you do that, post a report.


Picture is South Howard Lake.

I really think it depends on your timing. I go late August and early September. I will see canoeists the first day and the last day. In between I can go up to 14 days without seeing anyone even in the distance. The middle of the park at that time is really barren.
However it is also luck. One year I was camped on Cutty and within half an hour two groups went by. So you never know. But usually the middle of the park is really empty.

I rarely see people past the border lakes, but I'm always going in mid to late September or mid May. Just got back actually.

Just looking at the numbers the Q is obviously more traveled than WCPP... I am always amazed where and when I find solitude in the Q and where I perceive “crowding”...

We went in at Brewer Rapids one time. Saw a group on the portage but then had Wickstead to ourselves that night, the next night went to Darky and lo and behold we had the entire lake to ourselves...next night was on William same thing, Suzanette same thing now it has been 5 days not a sole...during the first week of August which is arguably the busiest time in the Q. Finally get to Burt in the heart of the Q and almost every camp is taken WTF. We did camp on the northern part of Burt and really if we hadn’t seen so many people earlier we felt like we had the lake to ourselves anyway.

Last year took the kids to Batch and Pickerel. The first 2 days was similar to a light BWCAW experience but on Pickerel we barely saw another person for 3 days and then only at long distance.

Ya just never know. Have a friend on this site and he worked hard to get to Cutty looking for remoteness and he rolls in seeing every possible campsite taken...same thing had solitude for the first day.

You just never know when you will get your solitude. I have found though that I always get it in some way in the Q.


T

In early August I was on North Bay of Basswood and saw only 2 other camps over 5 days. We decided to take the little used route and camp on Anchor Lake. Well the one site on this little visited lake had a large group on it when we got there. We went to Sunday Lake and had 2 nights and the lake to ourselves.

Visitor dispersion is indeed finicky.
I paddled the length of the Agnes from south to north three years ago and didn't see anyone.
I paddled Quetico lake from west to east some years back and saw nobody.

Most Quetico lakes are empty when I come through. There is so much water and so few people. Even when I do see people it doesn't bother me since it's more of an exception to see anyone
But, WCPP is far more remote as is Wabakimi.
Tom

Sometimes lakes that can be particularly busy do have spots where you can get away from the traffic flow. Take for example Sarah Lake. Clearly this is a route lake taking people from McIntyre to Side or Tuck. However, if you examine the lake, you'll notice a bay to the north that only shows portages into the Tuck River. I put myself down on a fairly nice island campsite there and spent 5 days poking around and fishing. I also located some nice reef structure west of the island nearer to a cliff face in that direction.

I saw 1 canoe over that stretch of days, yet I know there must have been reasonably heavy traffic in the cut to the south where you find the bay leading to McIntyre. (Not too bad for late June/early July time frame.)

dd

I agree DD, that is a wonderful camp and a great part of Sarah Lake. My only problem was the water commute to the mainland to use the facilities in the morning. Good views, good dive in swimming on the south side of the island. Beautiful open red pine camp with great tent sites.
And very little traffic.

For dentondoc

Have you ever got into the two no name lakes east of Sarah? I have tried half heartedly but the bush or cliffs looked to hard for a old man.

jdddl8: "For dentondoc
Have you ever got into the two no name lakes east of Sarah? I have tried half heartedly but the bush or cliffs looked to hard for a old man. "

I have not, and since I’m older than you, it’s not likely in my future.

dd

jdddl8: "For dentondoc


Have you ever got into the two no name lakes east of Sarah? I have tried half heartedly but the bush or cliffs looked to hard for a old man. "

There's a nice route to Kahshahpiwi out of the north end of Sarah that goes through most of the unnamed lakes to the east. Pretty route- rugged.

Banksiana: "

jdddl8: "For dentondoc

Have you ever got into the two no name lakes east of Sarah? I have tried half heartedly but the bush or cliffs looked to hard for a old man. "

There's a nice route to Kahshahpiwi out of the north end of Sarah that goes through most of the unnamed lakes to the east. Pretty route- rugged."

Does this trail get maintained as far as deadfalls? Or is it usually pretty clogged up?

It's on the portage crew route, probably gets done once a year. Tracks are brushy but not difficult to find.

I have done the route from Sarah through Irene and out to Kash. It’s a fun route with a couple of steep portages. I found the portages cleared properly.

Call me stupid. The original question that I was trying to ask had nothing to do with
Sarah. I was trying to ask about the two no name lakes east of Sark. For some reason I thought the discussion was about Sark not Sarah. Maybe a lobotomy is required.

I just decided I'm going to spend a week on the Howard lakes this September. I'm hoping there is a campsite or a flat place I can make into one, on North Howard. I will take pictures and explore!

Returned from a trip the 1st of July. During that trip, I was on Cirrus ... which is well known as a route lake and can be very busy at times. With this in mind, I sought out a place where I might be out of the traffic flow. My choice was the bay on the north side of the middle tier of Cirrus. I camped on site 5G, which was reasonably large and comfortable. With a layover day to do a little fishing and explore, it was worth the paddle back into the bay (which took a half-hour going in, but we were paddling into a stiff wind ... more like 15 minutes coming out on a lake of glass). Being "off-route" we didn't see anyone for the short time (basically 2 days) we were there.

A bonus at this site is a rock knob protruding out of the water a maybe 100 yards to the WNW. It is shallow to the shore from this point, but drops off to deeper water beyond. This spot held both smallies and walleye.

dd

I look forward to hearing about North Howard and your pictures. We did a day trip from a campsite near the Pickeral dam and it took only half a day to go to South Howard and back. The rarely used portage to South Howard is on the east side of the stream, is not long (perhaps 200m) but is not an easy walk. Some fallen trees to climb over when we were there. When you go east out of the upper end of Rawn Narrows, you paddle about 30 min east on a bay and it looks like a solid earth bank ahead, There is a winding passage through and finally you reach a lagoon with the Howard Rapids coming in from your left, north.
Have a good trip.
We are off to Quetico Lake via the Beaverhouse entry in another week.

dentondoc: "
"

You're a lucky man! I'm living vicariously through your trip since I'm not able to get out that much this summer. Nice photos dd! Thanks.

I am headed to the route out of the north end of Sarah into the Tuck River in September. I have been through there several times, always in perfect weather. I don't know why but have found that route to be beautiful. Perhaps it was the good weather each time. Perhaps it was simply because it was little used. I have vivid memories of the campsite there even though I have never stayed there.

Funny how certain stretches of water are so fixed in my memory. I have that same feeling when I paddle from Rose Island and Kasie Island and head west through the narrow backwaters over toward the rapids into Shelley. Beautiful.

HighnDry: "You're a lucky man! I'm living vicariously through your trip since I'm not able to get out that much this summer. Nice photos dd! Thanks."

The photos aren't that bad considering I ditched my normal photographic equipment and just used my iPhone X. I do miss being able to zoom in on a long distance shot and retain fine grained detail, but not so much that I want to lug extra stuff. I'm still searching for a "snap-on" tele-lens for that purpose. Macro and wide angle lenses seem to work much better. Also having a remote shutter device is a nice add-on.

And being a "multi-use" guy, I also had other things on my iPhone, like a backup GPS with digital maps, menu list, a list of pictographs locations and details and the like. All of these features can be used without either phone service or wifi.

dd

GraniteCliffs: "I am headed to the route out of the north end of Sarah into the Tuck River in September. I have been through there several times, always in perfect weather. I don't know why but have found that route to be beautiful. Perhaps it was the good weather each time. Perhaps it was simply because it was little used. I have vivid memories of the campsite there even though I have never stayed there.
"

I hope to head through from Kash to Sarah in early september. It's interesting country. The little lakes are pretty- some of the portages challenging. Between Irene and Kahsh are some of the tallest white pines I've seen anywhere- look like Doug Firs in their reach. Hope I can convince my paddling partner to camp on Irene.

In WCPP, you are more apt to find someone in the middle of the park than around the periphery. The first time I went there, nobody was in the parking lot, even when I came out there was only one other car

Any lake on the Gammon River chain, you are likely to encounter fly-ins and it is a magnet for everyone who goes there.

In the Q, when using Beaverhouse, you are likely to encounter people on Quetico Lake, but even then only one or two parties. I've never actually encountered more than one myself, but after that lake you'll at best encounter one other group, and you'll probably be glad to see them, you can go days without seeing anybody.

Zaras00k that's funny you mention WCPP and your experience there. I've been there only twice, but you are right there wasn't anybody around the fringes. This spring, I purposefully went to the South and West parts of the park to get away from the crowds. Harlan told me that part of the park doesn't get much of the visitation because it is trout water, and Americans want walleye. He was right, evidently, because it was deserted. I've seen virtually all the park south of the Gammon River system and next trip was wanting to go into the Gammon system. He tells me the walleye fishing is fantastic but from what you are saying you need to be prepared to see more people. The funny thing about WCPP is that the fly-ins don't get you anywhere you can't paddle to, just get you there faster. I was on a 14 day trip and we got essentially to the west and southern border from the Leano lake entry point.

Meanwhile, back to the original post. A friend and I ARE doing a good sized loop where we will go through Kawnipi to McKenzie, down the Wawiag River to Munro and Mack, then down to McEwen to Louisa and back. Some places will be busy and some places should be deserted.

Pretty cool discussion in this thread!
Joe